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http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/wm_documents/December%202012.pdf

Debit growing faster than credit. Macro factors are at play, affordability, recession etc. 

Wow. Seems to me that getting BBC coverage today, plus a big FinExtra spread means that people are getting it; Zapp is going to revolutionise the way we pay. I have read and agree with all the constructive feedback above. I guess it boils down to first incantations are not going to solve every concern, but with enough consumer (e.g. BBC) and business (e.g. WorldPay, HSBC etc) interest at his stage I know where I'd bet my money ;-). Anyone else know of other mobile payments outfits doing as much with the right people and getting the same attention? Yes, there's still a chance that things could not pan out, but the egg on face of so many big players says to me that is increasingly unlikely to happen. Personally, very keen to see the outcome in 5 years time..

Hi Alex

Re checkouts, I read the article and understood it meant internet shopping. The article could have been a bit clearer, but as there is no endemic issue at physical checkout I guess they felt they'd get away with their wording. With your additional context, I can see what you meant and I agree with you. I think Zapp also agrees (look at para 5 & 6) as they recoginise some challenges with the current status quo at physical pos, but also some innovation possible as a result of the Zapp tech.

Apologies for the "lack of vision" comment, I meant no offence. I am sure that in the realm of security and fraud then you and your organisation are true visionaries. My comment was targeted more at the subtleties of customer experience, consumer behaviour patterns, market trends, risk/reward modelling, and how payments can (and is being) innovated across these domains. I suppose I think that Google's move is the right one as it removes a layer of technical and commercial complexity in the payments chain, so I'm a fan of the anti-TSM pattern in that regard. I also like Cards in general as they "just work" and I expect that Tedipay is innovating here, so I will keep an eye out on the how when that starts being announced on your website.

On the debit-type payments protection, I think you could be right and are elluding to Section 75. I've not seen it in the press that Zapp will support a similar style protection or not. PayPal do have chargebacks, if you can get them to get a refund for you! The schemes still have a pretty solid position and track record here. But I wonder how much that is actually needed in the Zapp world?

On Octopus, for things like Taxi drivers, that does seem to make sense as more often than not its "greenfield". Bit trickier for larger scale ops like Boots or Sainsbury's, with significant sunken investment in PED / POS and tightly packed IT delivery roadmaps obfuscated by physical tasks in store where PEDs are concerned. So, depends on the merchant segment. Your initial point was about the commercial cost of putting readers in everywhere ("even £1bn not enough"), then you point out Hong Kong's Octopus so I guess you are sitting on the fence a little on what is best. I trend towards sitting on the fence, however I see the solution as within the merchant segment and if Zapp enables reuse of existing rails, then its up to merchant demand on whether it needs to be a stand alone Zapp reader or something that does a wider range of acceptance types. Either way, acceptance could easily be a mobile phone app or the merchant's own banking app or a Ingenico reader style device, right?

All in all, physicall point of sale and mobile payments like this is pretty hard. Let's see what they do and/or announce.

What "other" apps?

If the token is intercepted or fraudulently created, how can money be stolen?

How do MasterCard and Visa add value?

How many times would I need to use my mobile to make a payment before I start longing for this to be the norm instead of cash / cards? What about my teenage son, my sister at university, my nephew at primary school, the graduate poised to take over Tesco in the next 10 years - they are the future; what are their views on habit of paying by card and cash? What about the prevaling trend of people being stuck to their mobile phone and using apps?

What "other" apps?

If the token is intercepted or fraudulently created, how can money be stolen?

How do MasterCard and Visa add value?

How many times would I need to use my mobile to make a payment before I start longing for this to be the norm instead of cash / cards? What about my teenage son, my sister at university, my nephew at primary school, the graduate poised to take over Tesco in the next 10 years - they are the future; what are their views on habit of paying by card and cash? What about the prevaling trend of people being stuck to their mobile phone and using apps?

I normally don't comment on these things, choosing instead to giggle at some of the comments. However, Alex's last comment has oddly enough sparked me into putting some of his inaccuracies right... here goes.

"Higher checkout completion". I fear you misunderstand this area. Drop outs are caused by poor customer journey which allows time for purchasing doubt to sink in. Slicken the journey, less time for doubt, greater conversion. There are reports all over the industry that point to drop outs still being a major concern. Why else do you think that PayPal get away with charging 2.75%? Because they increase conversion rate - fact.

"Lower fees" - lower than PayPal for sure.

"Contactless interface" Zapp own readers would be daft. Its not Brazil y'know ;-) I will not comment on the "all acquirers" remark, other than to say that there is more than one way to skin a cat (like repurposing ISO fields etc).

"Token-based systems does not require secure element" - your whole opinion is steeped in lack of vison and doesn't consider the future. Off the grid shops / phone authentication: how long are they going to be off the grid for? How long till that merchant in a cave selling ice creams gets a broadband connection, and offers wi-fi? How long till Zapp / the Banks sort out a way to do offline auths? And why would they solve it right now for a set of edge cases rather than get the ball rolling first?

"Mobile fingerprinting" - here I think you are forgetting the risk-based approach to consumer payments that all participants take today. Criminals will keep finding ways to crack the "perfect" resolution we put in place to fraud, and we will keep finding ways to beat them, and the vicious circle will repeat. In the meantime, Joe Average just wants to buy his kid that scooter from Amazon / Argos / Jim's Market Stall without any hassle.

"What problem is Zapp trying to solve?" - for me it is trying to position a cheaper than PayPal alternative to merchants, whilst making the purchasing experience slicker for consumers (which they like and the merchant likes) whilst letting consumers use their bank's own infrastructure that they already fully trust and have done so for over a century to keep their money safe.

I would also expect a number of other logical extensions to the core product that you and I are not privvy too. Why would Zapp, who look to be in a good position with the banks and the merchant acquirers, tell the world their full plans now? They don't need to - what they have is sparking enough interest without giving away any more of their roadmap! (although I'd expect the banks and acquirers have a view to what this does actually look like and it must be good if they are interested, and I'd like to think that Loyalty would have a role to play for the consumer ....)

And no, I do not work for Zapp or any affiliated organisation!

The Online experience sounds really nice. Also, seems to me that the Zapp / Bank offering can do things that the cards models just can't due to the strength and development trend / strategies of the digital / mobile banks. 

I think that for a starting position on POS, its a great starting point. Seems like they are hitting the same customer experience issues as the other payments players - I mean, what's happening with NFC? Zapp say they doe NFC, QR and this Zapp Code thing. Seems they have all the bases covered, and at least the Zapp Code is secure (although last of the 3 offerings you'd have thought?). It also sounds like it will work pretty seemlessly with the new iPhone beam-bluetooth thingy. 

Some "prepare the payment in the queue" type stuff would be useful, and I can't see why that wouldn't be possible. It would mean asking the consumer to put the digits into the POS terminal, rather than taking digits from the merchant to go into the mobile app - but personally I think that would be better and encourages the merchant to get the NFC solution working! Which would help me with my contactless credit card, but that's another debate... :-) 

Sounds pretty cool. I'm guessing the wallet is funds held by CloudZync, so there needs to be a top-up of some form (debit/credit card more than likely?). One big question though regarding user experience - why show your picture ID? Not really displacing cash with that. If I generate a QR with an app that is secured through a PIN surely that is secure enough? I mean, steal my PIN for my card and you can just go to an ATM.......